**Mathematician Jordan Ellenberg: How Not to Be Wrong**

In the summer of 2011, a political talking point made the rounds claiming that the state of Wisconsin under governor Scott Walker had produced more than half of the country’s new jobs for the month of June. Sure enough, America’s Dairyland had added 9,500 private sector jobs, while only 18,000 had been created nationwide. But there’s a catch: that 18,000 figure measured *net *new jobs, factoring in the many jobs lost across the country along with the tens of thousands created. In fact, job growth in a number of states actually outpaced Wisconsin’s. Texas alone added 32,000 jobs, so you could say, nonsensically, that it contributed *180%* of the national total.

That load of hooey is far from the most egregious example of the muddled math that gets promulgated these days, not just by fact-spinning political hacks but also well-meaning journalists and public explainers. And our current infatuation with numerical evidence and data-driven everything isn’t going to help if we’re unequipped to interpret the numbers intelligently.

"The point of math isn’t solving problems," mathematician Jordan Ellenberg told me, "it’s understanding stuff." Jordan and I discussed some of the many ways we misunderstand stuff – "we’ meaning just about everyone, including the media, would-be experts and even some scientists – and how we can do better. Jordan is the author of the acclaimed new book *How Not to Be Wrong: The Power of Mathematical Thinking.*

*Click the play arrow above to hear the show, or the download icon on the upper right to get your own mp3.*

**Mathemagician Persi Diaconis**

When he was 14, Persi Diaconis ran away from home to become one of the world’s great magicians. Now he’s a world-class mathematician, and his two professions have more in common than you might think.

Persi and I had a very entertaining conversation about his careers in show biz and academe, covering topics such as:

- His friendships with other magicians, including Ricky Jay, Randi and Dai Vernon
- Some surprisingly profound mathematical card tricks
- Why science needs statisticians
- Duping others and being duped himself
- Why he’s so secretive

*Click the play arrow above to hear the interview, or the download icon on the upper right to get your own mp3.*

Persi’s well-known as an inventor of original tricks and sometimes helps other performers come up with new routines. For instance, he had a hand in this classic bit from Steve Martin:

**Mathematician Noson Yanofsky: The Outer Limits of Reason**

Does science have all the answers? The answer is no, and the proof comes from science itself. Mathematician/computer scientist Noson Yanofsky and I talked about his latest book, *The Outer Limits of Reason: What Science, Mathematics, and Logic *Cannot* Tell Us.* It’s a treasury of insoluble problems, undecidable propositions and practical or theoretical barriers to understanding. We discussed Alan Turing’s Halting Problem, Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem, Heisenbergian uncertainty, the mathematics of infinity and the simultaneously simple and ridiculously difficult traveling salesman problem. Also quantum computing, the trouble with self-referentiality and the wondrous correspondence between math and the physical world.

*Click the play arrow above to hear the interview, or the download icon on the upper right to get your own mp3.*